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Shanjaq
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I've merged a ton of leveled item lists and made a master plugin using the Leveled List Merger. I have a problem though: the new leveled list overwrites the original Morrowind leveled lists, so I now have *only* mod content in the crates and barrels(and who's obsessed with sticking nothing but 10 lumps of rat meat in every crate found in smugler caves??)
Is there a way to merge my master leveled list back into the Morrowind leveled lists?
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Well, if I understand you correctly, your "MW" leveled lists have been merged along with all the leveled-lists created by your numerous plug-ins into one big, Master Leveled List. That's kind of the idea behind using the Leveled List Merger Tool in the first place.
Perhaps your problem is because the Master Leveled List you created, is not at the bottom of the list in your Data Files (making it the last plug-in loaded). It it's not, it should be. You can get it there by opening the Leveling Tool, opening your Master List, clicking on "Update" and then closing and exiting.
But, more to the point of your post, if you want to undo the leveled list (the Master List you created with the Leveling Tool) simply "unplug" the *.esp for your leveled master list via the "Data Files" option.
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actually your first sentence is what I hope to achieve. Currently, the leveled list concerning smugler crates is overwritten by something in the master leveled list, what I need is for that something to be merged with the original MW leveled list so that the original loot returns along with the new mod content.
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I'm glad someone else posted this because I've been having the same problem too. I'll check to see if having the list as the last saved file works. Because I for one get sick of opening crates to find 10 axes or nothing in it. :P
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So you want the "goodies" from the original MW list to show up in these crates AS WELL as the "goodies" added by your mods? Well, if your lists are merged, that should be happening... but what shows up in a crate like that is randomized and determined by your characters level (duh). But the Leveled List Merger Tool isn't "taking anything away"... you just have a much larger list of items for MW to "choose" from (created by all those mods) when placing leveled items into any particular crate that holds "random loot". Or maybe I'm just totally not understanding what you want??
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What version of the List Merger are you using? Are all the plugins you want to merge installed and selected to load? If any plugin is not selected to load, load the Morrowind launch screen, click Data Files and select the plugin, click OK and then exit. If so, try creating a new merged list and click the 'Merge All Loaded Plugins' button and check the list. If all your plugins appear in the list then click the 'Merge' button.
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from what I can gather; a leveled list, once altered, will supplant the same leveled list from an older mod(which is why the Leveled List Merger was created)
since Morrowind.esm can be treated as one big mod, if a leveled list is altered in a plugin(the newer mod), the new leveled list will take precedence.
So far I haven't seen any way to include Morrowind.esm(and Tribunal.esm and Bloodmoon.esm) with the master leveled list, so we're really only merging mod content. This would cause the original leveled lists to disappear under the newly generated plugin where list IDs coincide.
at least that's what I *think* is happening.
I'm using the Leveled List Merger version 1.14
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Edited by Shanjaq (11/25/03 02:30 AM)
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Griz' makes a good point: every time you install a new plug-in that uses a leveled list, you need to re-merge your "Master List" to incorporate that new list. Doing this will also move your "Master List" to the bottom of the pile of your plug-ins list, where it needs to be.
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I do not alter my list of active plugins without recompiling the leveled list afterwards(otherwise Morrowind blows up)
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Well as I understand it, you have the MW Leveled List, and then you have the leveled list or lists from your mods. MW will load first, since it's an *.esm, and along with it, obviously, it's own leveled list. Then along come your mods, loading one at a time, some with leveled lists, some without. MW will employ the last leveled list loaded, however, whatever the source.
The merging tool takes all the leveled lists (both the original MW leveled list as well as all the leveled lists from your mods) and combines them into one: this is your new "Master" list and it's an *.esp file. Nothing is added or taken away from any one particular list, everything is just lumped together into one, big Master list. And since MW will use the last leveled list it finds, this Master List needs to be the last list it loads.
The real question here seems to be, is the Morrowind Leveled List included in the leveling or not. I am under the impression that it IS, but yes, I could be wrong.
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Shanjaq, the version of the merger tool you are using should have the capability to merge .esms along with .esps. It might be worth your while to experiment with merging the morrowind.esm (and any expansions) to see if they begin to show up.
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ok it was a bit tricky(and scary at first) but I managed to include the Morrowind, Tribunal and Bloodmoon leveled lists in the master file.
it was scary because the interface only allows the addition of one file at a time(I have 229 plugins active!!!) I was afraid i'd have to bite the bullet and refrain from pressing the "merge all loaded plugins" button because it overlooked the original ESM files. But thankfully, the "merge all loaded plugins" button left the master plugin open when finished so I could manually add just the esms I wanted.
So far very few leveled lists were actually *added*, but many were merged, which leads me to believe that my assumptions about the original leveled lists being overridden were correct.
Hmm... maybe an interface revamp would fix this, or altering the code of "merge all loaded plugins" to include the master ESM files would do the trick?
Well, i'm off to try this out now, those poor smugglers were forced to eat loads of rat meat all this time and I didn't even know it!
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Quote:
Well as I understand it, you have the MW Leveled List, and then you have the leveled list or lists from your mods. MW will load first, since it's an *.esm, and along with it, obviously, it's own leveled list. Then along come your mods, loading one at a time, some with leveled lists, some without. MW will employ the last leveled list loaded, however, whatever the source.
The merging tool takes all the leveled lists (both the original MW leveled list as well as all the leveled lists from your mods) and combines them into one: this is your new "Master" list and it's an *.esp file. Nothing is added or taken away from any one particular list, everything is just lumped together into one, big Master list. And since MW will use the last leveled list it finds, this Master List needs to be the last list it loads.
The real question here seems to be, is the Morrowind Leveled List included in the leveling or not. I am under the impression that it IS, but yes, I could be wrong.
That's pretty much how I understand it as well and I've not had any problems so far!
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Quote:
ok it was a bit tricky(and scary at first) but I managed to include the Morrowind, Tribunal and Bloodmoon leveled lists in the master file.
Okay hold the phone... now I'm confused... (not an uncommon occurrance).
So what you're saying is that by default, the leveled lists from the *.ESM's are NOT added to the Master Leveled List???
That you had to add those (leveled) lists into the Master List manually?
Would you be so kind as to explain in more detail exactly how you did that?
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ok, back from testing and I'm still getting 10 chunks of rat meat, 10 hammers, 10 scrolls of soultrapping, 10 netch leather pauldrons and the like in crates. what's so horrible about it is that the crates have 10 of *only* 1 item(i feel violated!)
I'm beginning to wonder if there's a more insidious problem at hand. perhaps each mod has a copy of the original leveled list, modified only by adding a few items to the "rotation". if that were so, there would be a lot of duplication in the rotation after a merge of several mods affecting the same leveled list, so random numbers to determine loot in the container would have a high probability of finding the same item repeatedly.
though i'm mystified as to why it would always pick 10 of everything.
Baphomet: I just hit "Merge All Loaded Plugins" and when it completed, I added the master ESM files one at a time by hitting the "Browse" button in the "File with Lists to Merge into Master List File" section then clicking "Merge!" for each.
I'm not sure if they are added by default, but I do see leveled lists being added and merged when I load up the ESMs in the merge tool.
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Edited by Shanjaq (11/25/03 04:27 AM)
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Shanjaq might be on to something here, I just tired out what he suggested and it looks to me like the original 3 (Morrowind, Trib, BM.esm's) were not being loaded w/ the leveled list tool. Now the funny thing is when you select the "LOAD ALL PLUGINS" option, it has the power to load up .esp files along with .esm files (I know because I have two mods that are recognized as .esm files). But of course the program is smart enough to recognize that MW, Trib, BM are not modded files.
So basically using the Merger program I selected the 3 main .esm files and loaded them individually into my master file. Its easy enough to do, you just use the browse for mods button (remember to first select .esm because .esp will be the default), your 3 main .esm files will show up, and then select them individually. Once the file is selected (i.e. morrowind.esm) you just press the "Merge!" button in the lower right hand side and it merges that .esm file with your list. I'm almost 100% positive it did indeed add "overall" more leveled lists once I selected and merged these 3 individual .esm files. I'm not positive if this means that the merger was ignoring the original game files or if theres something going on behind the scenes. But like I alluded to earlier, I'm pretty positive I now have overall more leveled lists then I started w/ before merging these 3 .esm files individually.
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maybe, but doing that didn't solve my problem =\
It could be part of the solution, but something else must be causing this gross duplication/isolation of container inventories.
TESCS shows up nearly a hundred duplications in the Leveled Item Lists, I'll check into this with Enchanted Editor while anyone curious about the results of the test can check my post at the end of page 1
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How very interesting!
Perhaps this is why I'm running into so many totally-empty crates??
Well I'm sorry I can't be of any help with the original problem, but I'm certainly going to take a closer look at my own Master List later and merge my *.ESM's in along with my plug-ins.
Edit: Does anyone think an e-mail to the creator of the Leveled List Merging Tool be of any help shed any light on this?? Just a thought.
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Edited by Baphomet (11/25/03 05:09 AM)
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Go into the console, and click on one of the crates where these "10 of stuff" things are occuring. Note the ID of the crate.
Next go into the editor without ANY mods loaded, and see if you can find the crate. If not, then a mod has replaced your crates. But I think you'll find it in there.
Also, it's worth noting that there is ONE smuggler cave that I've been in where they have crates with 10 of various items. But that's just one occurance in ONE cave. The rest are fine.
Also, there is one smuggler cave that has crates full of Frost Salts (10 each). Once again, it's a "unique" cave.
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Shanjaq,
I believe what you hit upon is true. The file you create (Master_Leveled_List.esp) takes precidence above all. If a leveled list is not in this file, it is not included in the game. This makes sence because of what happened to you and because of the following I pulled from the readme of the tool:
NEW IN V1.14
-merging of esm files added. it will ignore files named 'morrowind.esm', 'tribunal.esm','bloodmoon.esm' and/or 'blood moon.esm'.
This is stating that if you want to utilize the leveled lists of these particular files, you have to maually add them to the list.
Personally, I refrain from using the "Merge All Plugins" function because it screwed up my game in the past. Since then, I ONLY merge pluggins which include leveled lists. So, what I did is start the tool and open up my Master_Leveled_List (backed it up first) and Morrowind.esm (backed it up as well) and then hit merge.
Prior to hitting merge, I have 154 leveled lists merged (Creature Pack v1.1, Morrowind Advanced v1.8, Advanced Guards v3 and Black Queen Chronicles v2.5). Morrowind.esm has 343 leveled lists. After hitting merge, 242 new lists were added to my Master by Morrowind.esm. The new total is 396.
I went on to merge Tribunal (15 new list added) and Bloodmoon (102 new list added). My new list total is now 513.
So if what you says is true (I believe it is), there will be a noticable change in game.
Thank you for pointing this out because I had completely forgot about the leveled lists added by the Games's Master files. I assumed that these lists were added each time the game started. Apparantly, that is not the case when using a Master_Leveled_List. It would seem that THIS list overides the Game's Master Files as it concerns leveled lists.
Thanks for bringing up this point.
EDIT:
Concerning the doubling issue, if the Master_Leveled_List.esp does suffer from doubling, then a possible solution would be to convert the file into a .esm. I haven't tried this yet, but it may be worth a shot.
I say this because, in my experience with Morrowind Advanced v1.8, I as experiencing massive doubling problems with the creatures it added. I decided to convert it to a .esm with Arget's TESDTK and the doubling problem went away.
Incidentally, Since I refrain from using Merge ALL, I am going to go through my list of pluggins and see which other ones include leveled lists.
Yu-Gi
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Edited by Yu-Gi (11/25/03 06:02 AM)
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Just a note to say I have been having the same problem. If I find one more barrel with ten sickles in it, I will scream. Loud.
I noticed this first right after I installed Trinkets of Tamriedl 2 I went out and started hunting through caves a lot. Not a single trinket. This has continued. I tried hand loading the levelled lists, but it did not seem to fix things. I think the Levelled List Merger system is kinda messed up, and it has begun to interrfere with my enjoyment of the game.
So good luck tracking this down. If you can fix it, I will send you ten pieces of rat meat every week! And a sickle....
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Quote:
.......because of the following I pulled from the readme of the tool:
NEW IN V1.14
-merging of esm files added. it will ignore files named 'morrowind.esm', 'tribunal.esm','bloodmoon.esm' and/or 'blood moon.esm'.
This is stating that if you want to utilize the leveled lists of these particular files, you have to maually add them to the list.
Yu-Gi
Or, on the other hand, maybe it's ignoring those .esm's for a specific reason? No idea what the reason could be though, just kinda wondering why those .esm's are ignored.
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Quote:
Quote:
.......because of the following I pulled from the readme of the tool:
NEW IN V1.14
-merging of esm files added. it will ignore files named 'morrowind.esm', 'tribunal.esm','bloodmoon.esm' and/or 'blood moon.esm'.
This is stating that if you want to utilize the leveled lists of these particular files, you have to maually add them to the list.
Yu-Gi
Or, on the other hand, maybe it's ignoring those .esm's for a specific reason? No idea what the reason could be though, just kinda wondering why those .esm's are ignored.
I always wondered that myself considering that the readme also says that the tool only READS the files.
I don't know for sure, but maybe the creator of the tool assumed that the lists on those particular files would load by themselves even with the Master_Leveled_List. Only the program's creatator knows and he's left the boards and Morrowind altogether I believe.
However, according to Shanjaq and someone else in this thread, that isn't happening. I don't know for certain because I never really paid that much attention to the loot.
Guess we'll have to wait for another report form Shanjaq to know for sure.
By the way, I have played the game with my Master list which has the Game's Master Files merged and haven't experienced any adverse effects. I still can't say much about how this effects the loot because I don't pay that much attention to it.
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hmmm... something else has come up. I created an experiment with the random_bandit_1-5 leveled item list.
first, loading up a game as I would normally, all the plugins checked and the merged master leveled list(hereafter known as MMLL) on top. went to the first bandit cave in the volcanic region north of Seyda Neen and found a "sick" crate, it had 10 iron short-swords and one potion of dispell.
I exited the game and loaded up all my plugins in the Conflict Detector, sure enough it was Farrp's Weapon Compilation(hereafter known as FWC) and Magical Trinkets of Tamriel v1b2(hereafter known as MTT) competing for the "random_bandit_1-5" leveled item list.
I manually copied entries from MTT across to FWC and deleted the leveled item list in question from MTT, thus diffusing the conflict. Afterwords I got the idea to try and remove only the "random_bandit_1-5" leveled item list from my MMLL file. This was a simple matter of including my MLLF with the other mods in the Conflict Detector and deleting the entry that conflicts with what remains in FWC.
I then started up the game to test what I had done(punched a hole in the MMLL so that it would have no effect on "random_bandit_1-5")
*CRASHO!*
apparently, removing one of the leveled lists from the MMLL makes the game crash to desktop(CTD!)
What could this mean? I trust the Conflict Detector more than I trust the Leveled List Merger, since it shows you in plain hex and table view what's going on with the data entries, letting you decide what to do with them. Also, the game doesn't crash when I remove leveled lists from other plugins.
A few more tests may reveal the culprit, but now I'm going to test without the MMLL just to see how the Conflict Detector handled the manual leveled list merge in the case of "random_bandit_1-5"...
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Hopefully you can figure out how this exactly works since its an essential tool that everybody uses. I have had a list with 502 lvl lists in it, don't know exactly how they played out in game but i never got any "sick" crates as you call them.
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Quote:
first, loading up a game as I would normally, all the plugins checked and the merged master leveled list(hereafter known as MMLL) on top.
Well, that's your problem. The MMLL.esp file should be the last file loaded.
I've been using this utility since it first came out to merge GIANTS and Morrowind Advanced, and now I am using it with a multitude of other mods, and the only time I had a problem, was when "I" did something wrong.
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what I mean by "on top" is that the file date is most recent, causing it to load *last*
So far the manually merged leveled list worked beautifully. there were items from both MTT and FWC in the same crate. Although when I activated the MMLL that was altered to have no effect on this particular leveled list, the crates resumed their perverse behavior....
still experimenting, this just keeps getting weirder....
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Edited by Shanjaq (11/25/03 03:06 PM)
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Personally, I'm reading this thread with great interest, as I run a fair amount of mods that use Levled Lists. I also managed to merge my *.ESM files into my "MMLL", with the help of this thread; so I'll be curious to see what the impact is on my game in the long term. I only had a few mintues to "poke around" after the update, so I couldn't draw any real conclusions.
Those of you with more knowledge of things arcane (TESMU, TESPCD, the Construction Set, et. al.), please let me know what you find out. As someone else said, this a "tool" that a lof of us... and inquiring minds want to know!
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I am also interested in this thread, but I look at it with some puzzlement.... as I like I said have been using this tool since it first came out, and have never had a problem at all.
I agree that merging the master files might be useful, and I haven't ever tried that before. But this issue of the "10 crate bug" seems to me to be very odd.
Are you people absolutely sure there isn't another mod causing this problem? I have many "item" mods merged together, without issue, including, but not limited to:
Farrp's Weapon Compilation
Appoldro's Weaponstore (merged it with a little hack on my own part)
More Treasure
Assassin's Armory
Intelligenz's Marksman Mod
Necessities of Morrowind
W3 Rune Mod
That's all I can think of right now. Needless to say, it's quite the load of items..
I just find it puzzling that you guys are experiencing these problems.. when I never have.
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Grizzly_UK
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Curate
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Reged: 04/22/03
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This one certainly seems to be getting interesting. I am also very interested in how this one turns out. Fo a tool that should be (or is apparently) easy to use there seems to be a lot of work involved in getting the main 3 .esm's to merge properly without problems.
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Baphomet
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Well, while we all await further testing, tell me this... was I the only confused by the following (from the "Read Me" file (slightly edited for clarity)):
"NEW IN V1.14
- Merging of .esm files added. It will ignore files named "Morrowind.esm", "Tribunal.esm", "Bloodmoon.esm" and/or "Blood Moon.esm"."
The first part would seem (to me) to indicate that merging of the *.ESM's, as a function of the tool, has been included; but then goes on to say that those particular files will be "ignored" ... Get my point?
Does anyone know if the author is responsive to e-mail? Perhaps he would care to add his thought's??
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Well that's another thing. I haven't in the past EVER merged the main 3 .esm files... and have had no trouble. MW creatures and items still show up.
So maybe you are not SUPPOSE to merge those?
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Plugins by me, all available at Morrowind Summit.
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Baphomet
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Curate
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What the heck... I sent an e-mail to "Horatio", and included a link to this particular thread. I figured it was worth a shot.
Hopefully we can get his input.
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Malhavoc
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Initiate
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Quote:
Well that's another thing. I haven't in the past EVER merged the main 3 .esm files... and have had no trouble. MW creatures and items still show up.
So maybe you are not SUPPOSE to merge those?
I have also been following this thread with interest as I have numerous leveled lists merged. I was thinking along the lines of your comment last night. Maybe the original MW creatures/items still appears because they *are* part of the new leveled lists. I would venture that almost all leveled lists are created in this way. To illustrate my thinking:
I create a mod with my new magic rings and want to add them to the leveled lists. In the construction set, I open an existing MW leveled list, drop in my new rings, and save my active file as an esp. Check my esp in the data files and play the game. The original morrowind items (rings in this case but could be any list i *add* to) are still in the game. However, they are being placed there by my mod, not by MW!
So, the question is, what happens if I don't just add to the MW leveled list but instead change the existing entries..... In the extreme case, say I open the MW leveled list and *delete* all the entries then save it in my mod. When I run the LL Merger, if mine is the only mod i'm running and the merger doesn't merge in the MW esm the MW content is removed from the game. This would make sense since if I am only running 1 mod I wouldn't need to use the LL Merger anyway and the end result is the same.
I'm starting to ramble. But anyway, another poster had said he never had problems with the LL Merger removing MW content. Nor have I, or so I thought. But who knows? There remains the issue of what happens if a mod deletes items from an original MW leveled list and no other mods happen to alter that list. After you merge, my guess is the item is gone.....
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Yeah, if a mod were to delete the original items in a leveled list, that would cause problems.
What boggles me is this "10 crate" problem. Sounds like a dirty mod to me... not a problem with the list merger.
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Horatio
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Disciple
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hey,
the has got to be my first post in about 6 months...
someone emailed me (baphomet, i guess) regarding this thread to see if i could figure out what was going on. here's what's happening as far as i can tell with these crates:
1) The leveled list merger does NOT merge the lists from the master esm files ( morrowind.esm, bloodmoon.esm and tribunal.esm ), it only merges lists in other files. so if for instance you altered the "crate" list to only have rat meat and NO other plugins altered that list, only rat meat would show up in crates in the game because the merger won't merge the list with the original morrowind.esm lists.
i guess i made the assumption that people wouldn't be wildly deleting items from leveled list. in fact it never even occured to me.
anyway, the best way to get around this would be to merge in your master esm files.
2) Some numbskull has altered the "crate" object itself. All containers contain a list of items, these items can be leveled lists. if you alter the contents of a crate in one room the contents of ALL containers of that type (i.e. crates) will be affected. this was a big problem in a lot of early mods before people figured out what was going on. the accepted practice is to create a new container ID rather than alter ANY existing container object.
3) A whole lot of plugins are altering the crate list and the merger's "anti-duplication" code is getting confused. the list merger has code to prevent similar lists from causing duplications, but i suppose it is possible that it failed in the case of a massive number of plugins changing the same crate.
i'd really need someone who's suffering the "10X" crate problem to send me their "master list.esp" to see if this is occuring.
as for shanjaq crashing when he removes the entry from the master list, i haven't a clue...
hope that helped.
cheers
h
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 It's Horatio!
But that basically confirms what I was thinking... that it was indeed a dirty mod.
I can gurantee that the mods I listed aren't dirty though, they merge nice and easily in my experience at least.
Great to see that you still are willing to help in a case of semi-mass confusion Horatio. 
Here's still hoping you'll come back someday, maybe when TESIV comes out.
A trophy for you 
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Plugins by me, all available at Morrowind Summit.
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